[News] Hamas/Gaza/Israel

[aolstudios]

I think you need to. That’s a very revisionist idea of history you’re posting.

The actual history has been posted numerous times on this thread yet you keep posting erroneous information.

So again;

The Balfour Declaration is widely seen as the precursor to the 1948 Palestinian Nakba when Zionist armed groups, who were trained by the British, forcibly expelled more than 750,000 Palestinians from their homeland. How can people being violently thrown off their land by Jewish terrorists, that they had occupied for centuries, including with access to the River Jordan for fresh water, then be expected to cram into a piece of land the size of greater London that was basically a piece of desert?

Of course the Zionist ‘project’ was not welcomed by the indigenous Palestinians living on the land but they had no equivalent to the leadership that the Jews and British had in order to negotiate themselves a better deal...and they’ve been conceding land ever since with an insidious programme of Jewish settlements making increasing degrees of incursions into Palestinian territory. In 1967, Israel invaded the rest of the Palestinian territory and remains an illegal occupier, keeping Palestinians people under an oppressive form of control which had lead to an humanitarian crisis even before the current war broke out.

Arafat and his PLO was party to the Oslo Accords in 1993, which acknowledged the right of Israel to exist, laid down their arms, were taken off the terror designation and set up the Palestinian Authority with the understanding that Israel would commit to a long term plan for a two State solution and in the meantime, the West Bank (with East Jerusalem) and the Gaza Strip would be administered by Arafat‘s pro-West ruling parliament. Yitzhak Rabin who brokered the deal with Arafat (and the US) was subsequently assassinated by a far right Religious Zionist who had no wish to see Palestinians being offered Statehood. Netanyahu backed Hamas to control Arafat and the Palestinian Authority so it wouldn’t become too powerful. The rest is history.

I'd flatter you by saying check your history but this post is full of deliberate ommisions. You're not just mistaken, you're either deeply strange or utterly dishonest about your motivation or even origins. Because of most people's lack of experience of the situation you tend to get away with your endless bizarre epistles on here but I simply don't trust you or even that you believe what you post.
Just to address the first piece of made up bullshit, you're well aware that a two state solution was offered on the creation of Israel, that the Arabs refused it & that the surrounding states immediately attacked, telling the Arabs who lived there to leave & come back when the Jews were eliminated. They lost. Diddums. As they did in 1967. Diddums.
I & several others don't believe what you say & doubt even who you are. No one else has the energy to post as much as you do but it doesn't make it correct or even posted in good faith.

 

[Zeberdi]

I'd flatter you by saying check your history but this post is full of deliberate ommisions. You're not just mistaken, you're either deeply strange or utterly dishonest about your motivation or even origins. Because of most people's lack of experience of the situation you tend to get away with your endless bizarre epistles on here but I simply don't trust you or even that you believe what you post.
Just to address the first piece of made up bullshit, you're well aware that a two state solution was offered on the creation of Israel, that the Arabs refused it & that the surrounding states immediately attacked, telling the Arabs who lived there to leave & come back when the Jews were eliminated. They lost. Diddums. As they did in 1967. Diddums.
I & several others don't believe what you say & doubt even who you are. No one else has the energy to post as much as you do but it doesn't make it correct or even posted in good faith.

I’m not getting into a slagging match over your offensive remarks about my Jewish identity - you have no right to question me about that or gaslight me because you disagree with my opinions. If you can’t see that posting remarks designed to ’cancel’ someone’s Jewishness is antisemitic, I can’t help you. I will disclose to you however, that my Grandfather was in Auschwitz, my Grandmother bribed a load of soldiers with her jewellery to get him out and my father was evacuated from Vienna in 1939 to live in Wales. Our family name was changed to avoid racist attacks. I have an Uncle and cousin living in Israel and a whole lot of Jewish relatives in the States - some of whom support Netanyahu and are deeply Zionist in their beliefs. However, some great Jewish thinkers (like Gideon Levy) believe that standing up for the rights of Palestinians or calling an end to the war is not contrary to being Jewish - as do I.

This article demonstrates this point well I think

Meet the European Jews standing against Israel's war with Hamas

Having suffered throughout history, Jewish peace activists told Euronews Jews should identify with the oppressed and defend their rights - "whoever that oppressor may be."

www.euronews.com

As for your checkered history of the Palestinian question, most people accept the United Nations version of events as do I (which are clearly laid out in the link below)

Note - Ben-Gurion only saw the Petition Plan as a stepping stone to annex the entire Palestinian territy into Israel - that theme has passed down through Religious Zionist politics in Israel since 1948 and is what we are seeing being played out today in Netanyahu’s government. Also note, the first Arab/Israel war was not Arabs invading the State of Israel but took place over non-designated Jewish territory in Palestine.

https://www.un.org/unispal/timeline/

 

[Bakero]

I’m not getting into a slagging match over your offensive remarks about my Jewish identity - you have no right to question me about that or gaslight me because you disagree with my opinions. If you can’t see that posting remarks designed to ’cancel’ someone’s Jewishness is antisemitic, I can’t help you. I will disclose to you however, that my Grandfather was in Auschwitz, my Grandmother bribed a load of soldiers with her jewellery to get him out and my father was evacuated from Vienna in 1939 to live in Wales. Our family name was changed to avoid racist attacks. I have an Uncle and cousin living in Israel and a whole lot of Jewish relatives in the States - some of whom support Netanyahu and are deeply Zionist in their beliefs. However, some great Jewish thinkers (like Gideon Levy) believe that standing up for the rights of Palestinians or calling an end to the war is not contrary to being Jewish - as do I.

This article demonstrates this point well I think

Meet the European Jews standing against Israel's war with Hamas

Having suffered throughout history, Jewish peace activists told Euronews Jews should identify with the oppressed and defend their rights - "whoever that oppressor may be."

www.euronews.com

As for your checkered history of the Palestinian question, most people accept the United Nations version of events as do I (which are clearly laid out in the link below)

Note - Ben-Gurion only saw the Petition Plan as a stepping stone to annex the entire Palestinian territy into Israel - that theme has passed down through Religious Zionist politics in Israel since 1948 and is what we are seeing being played out today in Netanyahu’s government. Also note, the first Arab/Israel war was not Arabs invading the State of Israel but took place over non-designated Jewish territory in Palestine.

https://www.un.org/unispal/timeline/

To quote @Harry Wilson's tackle, I salute your indefatigability

AOL has his truth and he's not going to budge.

 

[Zeberdi]

To quote @Harry Wilson's tackle, I salute your indefatigability

AOL has his truth and he's not going to budge.

I have it on good authority that Harry is past the stage of saluting indefatigability, he would tell me to give up

I agree on your other point - but both sides can still state their alternative ‘facts’ without resorting to personal attacks when they feel out ‘argued’.

 

[aolstudios]

I have it on good authority that Harry is past the stage of saluting indefatigability, he would tell me to give up

I agree on your other point - but both sides can still state their alternative ‘facts’ without resorting to personal attacks when they feel out ‘argued’.

I can assure you, you're the last person on earth who would *ever* cause me to feel "out argued".
Unless of course, you get points for word count. In which case, you beat all of us, always. Several times a day

 

[Zeberdi]

I can assure you, you're the last person on earth who would *ever* cause me to feel "out argued".
Unless of course, you get points for word count. In which case, you beat all of us, always. Several times a day

Then what are all the personal attacks on my ethnicity and barbs about - can’t you just state your POV without the unnecessary unpleasantness?

I get you disagree with my POV on the situation in Gaza but I’m not stopping you from arguing your own POV or even trying to change your mind on anything - whatever POV it is that causes you to post inappropriate laughter emojis whenever anyone mentions the humanitarian suffering in Gaza is something I could never understand anyway.

Btw - my comment about ‘both sides arguing their POVs without resorting to personal attacks was a general one, applies to both sides of the Israel/Palestinian argument and to anyone - but given my views are not that polarised anyway though but quite nuanced, I don’t feel the need to attack anyone to defend them and I am honestly not clear what it is you so vehemently disagree with that causes you to resort to playing the man rather than the issue?

 

[aolstudios]

Then what are all the personal attacks on my ethnicity and barbs about - can’t you just state your POV without the unnecessary unpleasantness?

I get you disagree with my POV on the situation in Gaza but I’m not stopping you from arguing your own POV or even trying to change your mind on anything - whatever POV it is that causes you to post inappropriate laughter emojis whenever anyone mentions the humanitarian suffering in Gaza is something I could never understand anyway.

Btw - my comment about ‘both sides arguing their POVs without resorting to personal attacks was a general one, applies to both sides of the Israel/Palestinian argument and to anyone - but given my views are not that polarised anyway though but quite nuanced, I don’t feel the need to attack anyone to defend them and I am honestly not clear what it is you so vehemently disagree with that causes you to resort to playing the man rather than the issue?

You are anything but "nuanced".
& I don't believe you post in good faith.
There it is

 

[A1X]

 

[jackanada]

I'd flatter you by saying check your history but this post is full of deliberate ommisions. You're not just mistaken, you're either deeply strange or utterly dishonest about your motivation or even origins. Because of most people's lack of experience of the situation you tend to get away with your endless bizarre epistles on here but I simply don't trust you or even that you believe what you post.
Just to address the first piece of made up bullshit, you're well aware that a two state solution was offered on the creation of Israel, that the Arabs refused it & that the surrounding states immediately attacked, telling the Arabs who lived there to leave & come back when the Jews were eliminated. They lost. Diddums. As they did in 1967. Diddums.
I & several others don't believe what you say & doubt even who you are. No one else has the energy to post as much as you do but it doesn't make it correct or even posted in good faith.

I see this interpretation quite a lot. I don't see how other Arab nations not wanting a western backed army on their doorstep detracts from 10,000 unarmed civilians being "disappeared" by Israel. It's a massive war crime that doesn't merit "diddums".
The idea that 1967 was a defensive war rather than an orchestrated land grab doesn't hold up to much examination either.
But even if we disregard those two events I think that Israel has deliberately expunged even the concept of the green line from it's history suggests that they never wanted a settlement.

 

[carlzeiss]

Three accused of alleged terror plot to attack Jewish community

Three men are accused of planning a gun attack on the Jewish community in North-West England.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Three accused of alleged terror plot to attack Jewish community

Three men are accused of planning a gun attack on the Jewish community in North-West England.

www.bbc.co.uk

Great work from the intelligence bods to thwart this.

Not sure why you have posted this in a thread about the conflict in Palestine / Israel though - unless in support of the widely held theory that Israel's disproportionate vengeance is serving only to inspire the next generation of anti-Jewish terrorists?

 

[aolstudios]

Great work from the intelligence bods to thwart this.

Not sure why you have posted this in a thread about the conflict in Palestine / Israel though - unless in support of the widely held theory that Israel's disproportionate vengeance is serving only to inspire the next generation of anti-Jewish terrorists?

Or that the massive resurgence of Antisemitism has inspired & emboldened some scumbags

 

[Zeberdi]

https://www.itv.com/news/2023-11-09/i-was-terrified-islamophobic-incidents-up-by-600-in-uk-since-hamas-attack

https://www.ohchr.org/en/statements/2024/03/un-experts-warn-islamophobia-rising-alarming-levels

I don’t believe the war in Gaza is primarily concerned with religion yet it has became that for so many people because of entrenched racist attitudes -

IMO it is about a far right land grab and refusing to grant the rights of Palestinians to self determination or Statehood because of a territorial land dispute.

Specific terrorist attacks aside, constantly trying to push an antisemitic agenda on to anyone that opposes what Netanyahu is doing in Gaza is being unwittingly complicit in feeding a false and discriminatory narrative that attempts to rationalise the slaughter of thousands of innocent civilians based on religious grounds. It is saying that ‘the slaughter of thousands of children is justified’ because the innocent Palestinians that are being disproportionately killed are Muslim ‘and Muslims all hate Jews and want them dead’. That is Islamophobia not antisemitism.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Or that the massive resurgence of Antisemitism has inspired & emboldened some scumbags

The problem with you is that in your mind any thing anti Israel government or anti what the IDF are doing you consider as Antisemitic - you have, and I suggest purposely, merged two issues. It plays to the pro-Israel audience to suggest everything is Antisemitic.

I've not seen you condemn a single time the murder of 35,000+ innocent civilians by the animals of the IDF. Nor the actions of illegal Israeli settlers in the West Bank forcing innocent Palestinians out of their homes and in many cases murdering them ( while the IDF look on and do nothing ). That's not to mention the war crimes committed in Gaza by the IDF ( apparently one of the best trained and most moral armed forces in the world but are so stupid they kill their own country people who are hostages when they are half dressed and waving a white flag ).

There has been a large rise in the hatred of Muslims in the same way there has been a large rise in Antisemitic behaviour. Neither is acceptable. Now I'm sure you'll agree, the former is fuelled by the murderous Hamas attack ? Are you man enough to agree that the Antisemitic behaviour is because of the Israeli actions in both Gaza and the West Bank ? I doubt you are.

ADDITION - we can all use that idiotic laughing emoji you like so much.

 

[Zeberdi]

The problem with you is that in your mind any thing anti Israel government or anti what the IDF are doing you consider as Antisemitic - you have, and I suggest purposely, merged two issues. It plays to the pro-Israel audience to suggest everything is Antisemitic.

Indeed. Accusing those standing up for the rights of Palestinians of antisemitism also conflates the Government of the State of Israel with the Jewish race and Judaism. One of the problems here I think is the polarisation of the argument by people who engage in the issue - I am pro-Israel but anti-Netanyahu. I am pro-Palestinian rights but anti-Hamas. I am Jewish but against extremist forms of Zionism. I am pro-Muslim but against extremist interpretations of Islam.

It is perfectly logical imo to hold a nuanced position that is simply against all forms of political or religious extremism that leads to hatred and persecution of the other. And perfectly logical to hold a humanitarian POV that utterly condemns all forms of persecution and terror, including that by Hamas on 7 October and now by the IDF on civilians.

It’s just a shame that so many people seem not to maintain that kind of logic in their arguments.

ADDITION - we can all use that idiotic laughing emoji you like so much.

But not in response to someone launching a very personal attack on someone preferably. It could be taken the wrong way you intended.

 

[aolstudios]

The problem with you is that in your mind any thing anti Israel government or anti what the IDF are doing you consider as Antisemitic - you have, and I suggest purposely, merged two issues. It plays to the pro-Israel audience to suggest everything is Antisemitic.

I've not seen you condemn a single time the murder of 35,000+ innocent civilians by the animals of the IDF. Nor the actions of illegal Israeli settlers in the West Bank forcing innocent Palestinians out of their homes and in many cases murdering them ( while the IDF look on and do nothing ). That's not to mention the war crimes committed in Gaza by the IDF ( apparently one of the best trained and most moral armed forces in the world but are so stupid they kill their own country people who are hostages when they are half dressed and waving a white flag ).

There has been a large rise in the hatred of Muslims in the same way there has been a large rise in Antisemitic behaviour. Neither is acceptable. Now I'm sure you'll agree, the former is fuelled by the murderous Hamas attack ? Are you man enough to agree that the Antisemitic behaviour is because of the Israeli actions in both Gaza and the West Bank ? I doubt you are.

ADDITION - we can all use that idiotic laughing emoji you like so much.

Sorry to burst your bubble but being a 'Man' isn't conditional on agreeing with your very personal view of a complex & tragic situation in the middle east

 

[sparkie]

Great work from the intelligence bods to thwart this.

Not sure why you have posted this in a thread about the conflict in Palestine / Israel though - unless in support of the widely held theory that Israel's disproportionate vengeance is serving only to inspire the next generation of anti-Jewish terrorists?

Or that the massive resurgence of Antisemitism has inspired & emboldened some scumbags

Regretfully it is both the above.

This conflict has brought out the absolute worst in some and it is no-one's finest hour.

 

[Zeberdi]

Israeli activists with the help of sympathetic security services have for months blocked aid en route to Gaza intended to alleviate what is now a full blown famine in the North of Gaza, according to UN

'Don't give them anything, they're murderers': Israeli protesters block aid going into Gaza

For months, a group called Tzav 9, has been blocking aid trucks as they make their way through Israel to a small number of crossings into Gaza.

news.sky.com

"Burn their villages," one said. "Long live Israel," said another.

These attacks have led British Foreign Secretary Lord Cameron to call those involved "extremists", describing their actions as "appalling".

Again, it is innocent children that are being caught in the middle of this hateful conflict.

‘It’s death there’: babies and children hit hardest as famine tightens hold on Gaza

Estimated 27 children killed by famine, with fears many more will suffer lifelong effects, despite Israel’s promise of more aid

www.theguardian.com

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Sorry to burst your bubble but being a 'Man' isn't conditional on agreeing with your very personal view of a complex & tragic situation in the middle east

So still not able to condemn the murder of 35000 civilians then - righty ho. Or indeed the actions of the illegal settlers in the West Bank - some of whom have been sanctioned by the USA and the UK ?